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August 15th, 2007
Prophetic Quotes on America’s “Destiny”
In response to Dan’s comment in which he requested “prophecies of certainty”, the following quotes (certainly not a comprehensive treatment on the subject) are compiled for the interested reader. Anybody desiring to learn more is encouraged to read Duane Crowther’s Prophecy: Key to the Future.
The whole government is gone; it is as weak as water. I heard Joseph Smith say nearly thirty years ago, “They shall have mobbings to their hearts’ content, if they do not redress the wrongs of the Latter-day Saints.” Mobs will not decrease but will increase until the whole government becomes a mob, and eventually it will be State against State, city against city, neighborhood against neighborhood… (Brigham Young, Deseret News, Vol. 9, p. 2, May 1, 1861. (Gerald N. Lund, The Coming of the Lord [Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1971], 68.))
It is hard to believe that a nation as large and as prosperous and as powerful as the United States is today could lose the power to govern. Even though there are serious problems in this country today, it still has a great governing power and is a world leader in its influence. What conditions could bring such a nation to the brink of destruction? What kinds of crises could strike with such power as to destroy the United States? Although there is much that is not known concerning the specific events that will bring the Lord’s prophecies to fulfillment, he has given several indications of what is to come. In a scripture quoted in the previous chapter, the Lord said that when the times of the Gentiles were fulfilled, there would be men standing in that generation which would not pass away until they saw an “overflowing scourge cover the land.” The Lord often spoke of this scourge coming upon the people, and the devastating results of what would follow. In March of 1829, even before the Church was organized, he said: For a desolating scourge shall go forth among the inhabitants of the earth, and shall continue to be poured out from time to time, if they repent not, until the earth is empty, and the inhabitants thereof are consumed away and utterly destroyed by the brightness of my coming. Webster defines a scourge as “an instrument of punishment or criticism; a cause of widespread or great affliction.” This scourge seems to involve many forms of terrible calamities, including great hailstorms, tempests, plagues, pestilence, and war. Such terrible disasters will be such that they will lay to waste those who fight against God and will actually leave mighty cities desolate of their populations. The Lord warned some specific cities, particularly Boston, New York and Albany, of the desolation awaiting them if they did not repent. (Gerald N. Lund, The Coming of the Lord [Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1971], 47.)
I will here say that God has inspired me to keep a journal and write the history of this Church, and I warn the future historians to give credence to my history; for my testimony is true, and the truth of its record will be manifest in the world to come.
All the words of the Lord will be fulfilled upon the nations, which are written in this book. The American nation will be broken in pieces like a potter’s vessel, and will be cast down to hell, if it does not repent, and this, because of murders, whoredoms, wickedness, and all manner of abominations, for the Lord has spoken it. (Matthias F. Cowley, Wilford Woodruff, p.500)
. . .Do not weep for us…but rather weep for yourselves and your children, for as sure as the Lord lives the evils that men seek to bring upon us, will return in due time upon their own heads, heaped up, pressed down and running over. For it is an eternal law, and a law by which we are governed, that what measure we mete, shall be measured back to us again. Our nation knows not what awaits it; the Christian world knows not what awaits. . . .
The Lord never did bring judgment upon any people of any generation until he raised up prophets to warn them of the impending danger. . . . And so it will be with our nation and all others, when they shall reject the message that is sent to them. The heavens are full of judgment, and as the prophets have said, they will commence at the House of the Lord and then go to the nations of the earth. (John Taylor, JD 23:82, 1882)
While discussing the petition to Congress, I prophesied, by virtue of the holy Priesthood vested in me, and in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, that, if Congress will not hear our petition and grant us protection, they shall be broken up as a government. (Joseph Smith, DHC 6:116)
And when the nation with which we are associated is shaken to its centre and crumbles to pieces…it will continue to fall and to crumble, until it is no more, and by and bye there will be an end of it. Not so with the kingdom of God; it will stand, and continue to exist and spread and go forth. . . . (John Taylor, JD 11:26, 1864)
When I contemplate the condition of our nation, and see that wickedness and abominations are increasing, so much so that the whole heavens groan and weep over the abominations of this nation and the nations of the earth, I ask myself the question, can the American nation escape? The answer comes, No; its destruction, as well as the destruction of the world, is sure; just as sure as the Lord cut off and destroyed the two great and prosperous nations that once inhabited this continent of North and South America, because of their wickedness, so will he them destroy, and sooner or later they will reap the fruits of their own wicked acts, and be numbered among the past. . . . We have no time to throw away, or spend in the foolish things of the flesh; what time is at our disposal should be used in building up the Zion of God, and in preparing ourselves and our families for the things that await us. (Wilford Woodruff, JD 21:301-02, 1880)
God has sent forth His warning message in the midst of this nation, but they have rejected it and treated His servants with contempt; the Lord has gathered out His people from their midst, and has planted them here in these mountains; and He will speedily fulfill the prophecy in relation to the overthrow of this nation, and their destruction. We shall be obliged to have a government to preserve ourselves in unity and peace; for they, through being wasted away, will not have the power to govern; for state will be divided against state, city against city, town against town, and the whole country will be in terror and confusion; mobocracy will prevail and there will be no security, through this great Republic, for the lives or property of the people. (Orson Pratt, Deseret Evening News, Oct. 2, 1875)
The nation that kills the prophets of God in any age must expect to reap cursings instead of blessings, unless it speedily repent. Judgment must begin at the house of God first, and we are perfectly willing it should….I told General Kane that the Government of the United States would be shivered to pieces. (Brigham Young, JD 12:119, 1867)
As with a person, as with a people, so is it with a nation. A drunken nation cannot expect that God will withhold His judgments, nor ward off the ravages of the Destroyer. A drunken nation is a seedbed for disaster,–political, physical, moral, and spiritual. A drunken nation may not, even in its hours of direct distress, pray to God for help, with that simple assurance and unpolluted faith which bring aid and comfort to those who abide the law of sobriety and keep His commandments. (Message of the First Presidency, Oct. 3, 1942)
The great American Republic is now one of the most powerful governments in the world . . . . But that great–that powerful nation–is destined to an utter overthrow. If it be asked, why is America to suffer? The answer is, because they have rejected the kingdom of God, and one of the greatest divine messages ever sent to man; because they have sanctioned the killing of the Saints, and the martyrdom of the Lord’s Prophets, and have suffered his people to be driven from their midst, and have robbed them of their houses, and homes, and land, and millions of property, and have refused to redress their wrongs.
For these great evils, they must suffer; the decrees of Jehovah have gone forth against them; the sword of the Lord has been unsheathed, and will fall with pain upon their devoted heads. Their great and magnificent cities are to be cut off. New York, Boston, Albany, and numerous other cities will be left desolate. Party will be arrayed in deadly strife against party; State against State; and the whole nation will be broken up; the sanguinary weapons of the dreadful revolution will devour the land. Then shall there be a fleeing from one city to another, from one State to another, from one part of the continent to another, seeking refuge, from the devastations of bandits and armies; then shall their dead be left unburied, and the fowls of heaven shall summer upon them, and the beasts of the earth shall winter upon them.
Moreover, the Lord will visit them with the deadly pestilence which shall sweep away many millions by its ravages; for their eyes shall fall from their sockets, and their flesh from their bones, and their tongues shall be staid in their mouths, that they shall not be able to blaspheme against their Maker. And it will come to pass, that the heavens will withhold their rains and their fruitful fields be turned into barrenness, and the waters of their rivers will be dried up, and left in standing pools, and the fish therein will die; and the Lord will send forth a grievous plague to destroy the horses and cattle from the land. Thus by the sword and by pestilence, and by famine, and by the strong arm of the Almighty, shall the inhabitants of that wicked nation be destroyed. In that day a remnant shall repent, and be numbered with the people of Zion, and shall know that the Lord hath spoken, and hath fulfilled his decrees upon the land, and executed his fierce justice upon the oppressors of his people. (Orson Pratt, Mill Star, 28:633-34, 1866; Masterful Discourses of Orson Pratt, pp. 156-157)
The internal fires of revolution are already smouldering in this nation, and they need but a spark to set them in a flame. Already are agencies at work in the land calculated to subvert and overthrow every principle of rule and government; already is corruption of every kind prevailing in high places and permeating all society; already are we, as a nation, departing from our God and corrupting ourselves with malfeasance, dishonor and a lack of public integrity and good faith; already are licentiousness and debauchery corrupting, undermining and destroying society; already are we interfering with the laws of nature and stopping the functions of life, and have become the slayers of our own offspring, and employ human butchers in the shape of physicians to assist in this diabolical and murderous work. The sins of this nation, the licentiousness, the debauchery, the murders are entering into the ears of the Lord of Sabaoth, and I tell you now, from the tops of these mountains, as a humble servant of the living God, that unless these cries and infamies are stopped, this nation will be overthrown and its glory, power, dominion and wealth will fade away like the dews of a summer morning. I also say to other nations of the earth, that unless they repent of their crimes, their iniquities and abominations, their thrones will be overturned, their kingdoms and governments overthrown, and their lands made desolate. This is not only my saying, but it is the saying of those ancient prophets which they themselves profess to believe; for God will speedily have a controversy with the nations of the earth, and, as I stated before, the destroyer of the Gentiles is on his way to overthrow governments, to destroy dynasties, to lay waste thrones, kingdoms and empires, to spread abroad anarchy and desolation, and to cause war, famine and bloodshed to overspread the earth. (John Taylor, JD 23:62-63, 1882)
35 Responses to “Prophetic Quotes on America’s “Destiny””
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yep…
Considering how the attitude of government officials has changed, and also considering how many people have joined the Church in America since those prophesies were made, isn’t it possible that God will hold off some of the scourges and calamities for a while? 🙂
Although the evils of today are trumpeted and even celebrated in the mainstream media, are there not tens of millions of Americans who accept Jesus Christ as Savior, and who are trying their best to live God’s commandments as far as they understand them?
How many faithful LDS do there need to be in Boston (where we have a temple) and New York (where we also now have a temple) in order to stave off the desolation of those cities?
I was a teenager in a suburb of NYC when the Church announced that it would build a stake center in Manhattan (within which the temple is now located). I wondered why they were pouring money into that project when NYC was doomed to destruction. My parents wisely taught me that in every age members tend to think that the Second Coming is imminent, but that the Lord’s time frame is obviously not the same as ours.
I’m sure that all prophecies will be fulfilled, but since many are conditional, is there not reason to hope that many more people will repent, and thus not every detail of President Woodruff’s predictions need come to pass?
And that’s my point. All of the quotes that Connor laid out (which I knew he would—so predictable Mr. Boyack!), are actually conditional, and not prophecies of certainty. Let me give you an example of a prophecy of certainty:
Now THAT my friends is a prophecy of certainty, not based on any condition of repentance. It WILL happen. That is Revelation chapter 9.
So again, Connor, show me examples of prophecies of certainty of the destruction of America. I doubt you will find any.
RoAnn,
How many faithful LDS do there need to be in Boston (where we have a temple) and New York (where we also now have a temple) in order to stave off the desolation of those cities?
Good question. It’s one I’ve wondered myself. But Saints were not spared in Kirtland, nor were they in Nauvoo, where there were temples in both places. I’m not so sure that having a temple in a certain location will prevent anything bad from happening. Just remember the Samoa temple fire…
We do learn that in the Book of Mormon that the calamities usually come when the people throw out the Saints from their midst (or when the Saints voluntarily leave). But, we have no idea what future conditions will exist that might cause this migratory shift, if that does indeed cause such events to transpire.
Who knows what the future will bring? Good thing we have the Book of Mormon to serve as our guide—a book that President Hinckley has called as relevant for our day as the morning newspaper.
Dan,
All of the quotes that Connor laid out (which I knew he would—so predictable Mr. Boyack!), are actually conditional, and not prophecies of certainty.
Did you even read any of these quotes?
When a prophet says “shall” or “will” without saying “unless…” that means it is certain.
He who hath ears to hear…
of course I read the quotes. The question is, do you understand what a prophecy of certainty is? It is unconditional. i.e. it will happen regardless of whether a nation is good or bad, or a people follow God or not. The Second Coming, for example, is another prophecy of certainty. It WILL happen no matter what.
Now, note for example in your first citation the conditional “if”:
Should I point out the conditionals in all of your examples, or can you find them on your own?
Let’s just, for the fun of it, look at your second example, from Gerald Lund, as he is a closer example to our time, and not from the mid-1800s:
Oh! There’s that dratted conditional!
Oh I can’t stop now, let’s look at Wilford Woodruff’s example, the next one on your list:
Dang, for some reason they just can’t seem to get away from that dastardly conditional!
I’m sure you can find that conditional in the rest of your examples. Now since you have failed in showing examples of prophecies of certainty, I give you one more chance. Com’on Connor, show me what you got. Show me the money!
Dan,
You have selectively chosen to cite roughly half of the quotes in this post that contain an “if they repent”. Now, I might argue the definition of certainty in light of the wickedness our day and the “certainty” that we as a society aren’t going to be repenting any time soon, but I still instead redirect you to the other half of the quotes that you apparently glossed over which contain no “if” or “unless”, but instead make bold, prophetic declarations of certainty (gasp!) regarding the destiny of our nation.
There’s the money.
Dan:
Thanks for the laughs. Wow you just don’t get it. I feel sorry for you. Why is it that Mormon Democrats seem to always be the members of the church that have the biggest problems with following the words of the prophets? Why is it that Mormon Democrats seem to put party before church, god and reason?
Dan, I think you need to sit down and have a serious talk with yourself. Church or party? Your eternal salvation depends on the answer to that question.
okay, Connor, let’s go through the rest of the list, then.
Next on the list is John Taylor who says:
I don’t see how this is a prophecy of certainty, meaning that our nation will be destroyed, no matter what. It is again conditional upon whether or not the people reject or accept the message. Now, John Taylor says “when” not “if” but if we put his warning in the context of Joseph Smith’s, Wilford Woodruff’s and Brigham Young’s, which all use the “if” clause, we can pretty well infer that John Taylor didn’t see the inexorable destruction of our nation regardless of whether we were righteous or wicked, but rather that our nation would be destroyed when we chose to be wicked. Again, conditional.
Next.
Joseph Smith:
Note the conditional.
Next.
John Taylor, this quote is from twenty years earlier, and requires context. Please provide context so we can fully understand what he is saying here. Thank you.
Next.
Wilford Woodruff. This is a conditional prophecy. Note that he says that as the wickedness rises, America’s future is like that of the Nephites and Lamanites, but again, this is conditional upon how wicked we are vs. how righteous we are. Continuing down a wicked path will eventually lead to destruction. But this is not a prophecy of certainty. Let me define it again. A prophecy of certainty is one that will occur no matter what, no matter how righteous or how wicked a people are. No condition is placed upon that prophecy to be considered a prophecy of certainty.
Next.
Orson Pratt. Again conditional upon how righteous or wicked we are. Orson Pratt also says this: “He will speedily fulfill the prophecy in relation to the overthrow of this nation, and their destruction.” Can you do me a favor and cite to me the prophecy he is talking about.
Next.
Brigham Young.
Note the conditional.
Next.
The First Presidency.
Note the conditional, a wicked nation of course cannot expect that God will withhold his judgments.
Next.
Orson Pratt, again.
Again, not the conditional. It will suffer because it rejected the kingdom. But of course, if it does not reject the kingdom, can it be overthrown? Of course not. Conditional. Yet again.
Next.
John Taylor.
Note the conditional.
So again, are there any actual examples of this country being destroyed that is not based on the condition of righteousness/wickedness? I don’t think so.
Next.
You know, I don’t think you guys really have to be so much at odds here. Most prophecies are conditional. Jonah’s prophesy to the people of Ninevah said that they would be destroyed with no conditions mentioned in the scriptures we have. The people repented and were not destroyed.
I think it must be the same for America. Though the prophesies are conditional (point for Dan), the conditions are being fulfilled by the American people and we are ripe for the prophesies to be fulfilled (point for Connor).
In spite of the conditional nature of the prophesies we have read here, I believe that a large part of our nation will be destroyed because of our stubborness and track record of refusing to repent as a people. Secret Combinations control our country. A portion of the righteous will be spared I believe, but we have a lot of buffeting to endure before the New Jerusalem is set up on this continent.
Some of these prophecies have already at least been partially fulfilled. The nation broken as a potter’s vessel? Hmmm…. Didn’t that happen during the Civil War and its aftermath? Mobbings? What about lynchings in the South for a century after the Civil War? What about the race riots and the anti-war riots during the 60s?
Let’s broaden our horizons here, folks. Not everything in these prophecies necessarily implies a single massive catastrophe. How about many smaller (or even larger) catastrophies and uprisings over time? How about a general weakening of the U.S. Government (the Constitution) over time, due to these effects?
And lest we get all smug about our righteousness, how about the prophecies that state that the calamaties will begin among the Saints first?
Of course prophecy is conditional upon repentance.
To God, all things are before him, past, present, and future are one eternal “Now.” So can he spare people and nations if they repent? Of course, and thus is the intent of prophecy, to warn of the consequence and failure to repent. But given that all things before God are one eternal “now” he can determine and know if people will repent or not. God knows the future perfectly, does he not? Therefore, can he spell out some prophecy telling of the reality of what will occur? Yes. And there are some cases that can be found where this is the case.
Is America Doomed? Wilford Woodruff so stated it is. Joseph Fielding Smith so stated it is.
So there are things that can be changed, but there are some things seen, the fact that repentance has not occurred in the future. So what of the judgements and calamities coming? Ezra Taft Benson even warned us that the calamities are coming, and if we decieve ourselves to think they will be put aside because of the “righteousness of the saints” then we shall rue the day. Specifically he said, and this is not conditional:
Bruce R. McConkie that same year warned, and note some things have “if” clauses, and others do not. Some things are assured, but for all of us as individuals, we have “if” clauses that can change our outcome in future events, and I suppose this too applies to families, and nations:
The year previous to this, Elder McConkie shared this:
Perhaps I’ve not added anything really in resolving anything for anyone, but hopefully some will enjoy these not to distant (in the past) prophetic statements. There seems to be indication that some prophecy does indeed contain the invitation to change the outcome through change and repentance, and other prophecy doesn’t always give that. I just recently listened to a talk by Joseph Fielding Smith that played on BYU’s radio station on Sunday. He spoke there of the plain fact that prophesied judgments are coming, and the LDS church will not escape it entirely. It is a most interesting talk, given in 1967 at BYU.
It is believed that there will be a president elected just prior to this 13th month war.
That he would be elected but never offically take oath due to an attack by the russians who would likely take out our communications and power etc…
hence marshal law and you get the rest.
I would love to get a referance as to where this believed prophecy originates from.
I believe it may be in the book…”behold the fig tree.
As far as Temples and safe “havens”
Temples must have a holy of holies this is the Lord’s Pattern.
The rest are endowment houses and Joesph smith and Brigham young spoke alot on this matter.
Also concerning safe havens the church will set up “tent cities” and will travel from place to place just cause something may be a “temple does in no way mean you will be protected therein.
Look at history.
Faith along with honoring the priesthood may be the only “saving grace”
Follow the spirit.
Besides the Salt Lake Temple, which temples have a Holy of Holies?
I’ve heard that Salt Lake City is going to be one of the most evil cities in the world in the last days before the Second Coming. Is this true and are there any quotes about this?
Christie,
You are referring to Heber C. Kimball’s prophecy, here it is:
Also, additionally these prophetic words also by Heber C. Kimball should be made note of:
Ezra Taft Benson, Conference Report, October 1963, p.16
ABORTION WOULD BE RAMPANT AS WELL AS EVERY PERVERSION EXCEPTED OR LEGAL.
ONLY A FEW RIGHTEOUS OR RELIGIOUS PEOPLE WOULD WE WILLING TO HAVE LARGE FAMILIES.
MEN WOULD LIVE TO ABOUT 100 YEARS OLD.
INFORMATION AND TRANSPORTATION WOULD BE ALMOST INSTANTANEOUS.
STEEL WOULD BE PLENTIFUL LIKE LUMBER.
THERE WOULD BE TWO POLITICAL PARTIES. THE REPUBLICANS AND THE DEMOCRATS.
YOU WOULD NOT BE UNABLE TO TELL THE TWO PARTIES APART AND THEY WOULD SPEND THIS COUNTRIES STRENGTH IN FOREIGN WARS AND ENDEAVORS (INVESTMENTS).
FROM THESE WOULD COME A THIRD PARTY. (THIS DOES NOT MEAN THERE WOULD BE THREE PARTIES. THIS PARTY COULD REPLACE ONE OF THE OTHERS AS THE OTHER TWO MERGE).
THE WORLD BANKING SYSTEM WOULD FAIL AND ONLY THE UNITED STATES AND ENGLAND WOULD BE ABLE TO PROP UP THE REST OF THE SYSTEM.
GOLD WOULD NOT BE USED TO PURCHASE DAILY ITEMS. A BUSHEL OF WHEAT OR CORN WOULD BE THE PRICE OF AN OUNCE OF GOLD.
THE UNITED STATE WOULD BE RULED BY A FOREIGNER AND BECOME A CESAR OR A NAPOLEON AND AS MANY WILL FLEE FOR FEAR OF BEING ENSLAVED BY THE GOVERNMENT BECAUSE THE DEMOCRATIC, REPUBLICAN, AND THIS FOREIGNER WOULD SHREDDED THE CONSTITUTION UNTIL IT WILL HANG BY A SINGLE THREAD.
WASHINGTON D.C. THE CAPITOL WILL COME UNDER SUCH AN ATTACK THAT THERE WILL NOT BE TIME TO BURY THE DEAD AND THE BODIES WILL BE PILED UP IN TOWN SQUARE AND WILL BE THROWN OR FALL INTO THE POTOMAC RIVER SEEKING WATER BECAUSE OF THIRST AND BODY DISPOSAL.
THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT WILL BE DECAPITATED AND IT WILL APPEAR THAT THERE IS NO FEDERAL CONTROL AS THE COUNTRY BREAKS INTO PIECES.
THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT WILL RELOCATE IN THE CENTER OF THE UNITED STATES.
THE CITIES OF THE EAST COST WILL BE EVACUATED FOR FEAR OF AN ATTACK ON THEM.
THE MASS MIGRATION FROM EAST TO MIDWEST AND THE ROCKIES WOULD BE BY FOOT FOR MANY AND ANY MEANS POSSIBLE WITH JUST A BACK PACK BECAUSE MUCH OF THE TRANSPORTATION SYSTEM WOULD BE SHUT DOWN.
THOSE LEFT IN THOSE CITIES WOULD HAVE NO SOCIAL SUPPORT SYSTEM AND WOULD FALL INTO MOBS AND EVEN KILL AND DRINK THE BLOOD OF THEIR OWN CHILDREN BECAUSE OF THIRST BUT NOT BECAUSE OF EVIL INTENT.
PEOPLE WOULD BE AMBUSHED FOR WHAT EVER THEY MIGHT HAVE OF VALUE THEN THEY WOULD DIE SOON AFTER.
MOBS WOULD BE THRU-OUT THE UNITED STATES AND THE COUNTRY WOULD BE IN A CIVIL WAR.
THE UNITED STATE WOULD BREAK INTO REGIONS AND BAND TOGETHER FOR STRENGTH AND PROTECTION.
CHINA WILL TRY TO CLAIM CALIFORNIA WITH MEXICO MOVING NORTH AS CANADA WILL ACT AS A BUFFER ZONE THOSE COMING FROM THE NORTH.
FOREIGN COUNTRIES WILL LOOK AT THE WEAKEN CONDITION OF THE UNITED STATES AN WIL TALK OF DIVIDING IT UP BUT ENGLAND (EUROPE WILL WARN THE REST OF THE WORLD TO KEEP BACK. THE UNITED STATE WILL OBTAIN GREAT STRENGTH FROM ENGLAND.
THERE WILL BE A GREAT INTERNAL STRUGGLE UNTIL ONE HALF OF OUR FIGHTERS WILL BE DEFEATED THEN THOSE THAT BELIEVE IN THE CONSTITUTION AND THOSE RIGHTEOUS THAT HONOR THE RIGHTS TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS WILL BE CALLED UPON TO DEFEND THE COUNTRY AND CONSTITUTION IN THIS GREAT INTERNAL STRUGGLE.
AT THIS TIME THE MIDDLE EAST WILL FALL IN A MASSIVE WAR WITH EACH OTHER AND WILL BE HELPED BY CHINA AND RUSSIA BUT WITH WEAPONS THAT CAN CAUSE FLESH TO BE STRIPED FROM THE BONES BEFOR THE PERSON DIES THEY WILL TURN ON EACH OTHER BECAUSE OF THE CONFUSION.
AFTER THIS THE UNITED STATES WILL REBUILD.
AFTER THIS THE UNITED STATES WILL REBUILD AND THESE ARE THE SIGNS OR EVENTS THAT WILL BE TAKING PLACE WHEN THIS GENERATION WILL LIVE TO SEE THE GREAT ZION JACKSON COUNTY TEMPLE (CITY) BUILT. JUST AS THE EARLY CHRISTIANS THOUGHT THAT THEIR GENERATION WOULD BE ALIVE TO SEE CHRIST’S RETURN THE EARLY SAINTS THOUGHT THAT THEY WOULD SEE THE BUILDING OF THE CITY OF ZION, BUT IT WAS NOT THAT GENERATION THAT IS REFERRED TO BUT THE GENERATION THAT SEE ALL THESE SIGNS SPOKEN OF BY THE PROPHETS. IT IS NECESSARY TO PIECE ALL OF THE PROPHECIES TOGETHER. THEY ARE ALL ONE EVENT.
Bob,
Please stop using ALL CAPS.
And where exactly are you getting all these? References please. I’ve heard a lot of them. A few are standard, but many are apocryphal. What are the ORIGINAL sources?
Sorry about the caps my eyes are going blind and I forget sometime. I should not have posted without better prepaired writings and I did not stay on the “prophecies of certainty”. I am not sure I could source all of these and I am sure most are apocryphal or unauthorized by your and the normal scholastic standards. One example is that only a few woman would be willing to have large families, I think came from a tape (stop laughing: yes I am so old that I remember about tapes before, CD’s, utube, ipods) where Truman G. Madsen had access to the Church archives and told of someones personal journal where Joseph Smith stated that the day would come when only members of the Church would be willing to have large families. I am sure I don’t need to go into U.S. statistics on child birth or how most industralized nations are having problems keeping their birth rate up and the problems this is going to cause in the future. I also take some from non-Mormon sources such as the vision of George Washington and the great world wars and the three internal civil struggles that we would go through. I feel that the LDS authorities and others have given us special insight into these upcoming events. Sorry about the non-Mormon sources but I am partial to some of these because of my experience that lead me to the LDS church and stories like Father Mason’s vision as related to Wilford Woodruff. The rest will take me some time but I will try to source.
Most of my sources came from a book “Last days” by Smith the tenth edition. It has many view all put togother and is some what dated.
I haven’t heard of that book. But I’m hoping the copy you have has a bibliography, from which you can source certain passages. It appears to be out of print from what I can tell.
Madsen’s tapes had many errors in them which he corrected in the book version (complete with bibliography). Unfortunately, I seem to have lost my copy of the book. In the tapes, he says “only LDS women” will be willing to have children. But I believe it would be more believable to say only righteous women . . . I wonder if that is what was stated in the book.
I’m shocked to find how many people think it is anywhere from undesireable to a moral wrong to have a large family. When I had my third child, people where crying,”Good grief!! When are you going to stop?!”.
Fewer and fewer LDS families (and Catholics for that matter) are wanting large families. But larger numbers of evangelicals (by percent increase per capita) are having larger families.
As for the other items you bring up, I have difficulty believing that the specific countries and states you mention (except where Israel & America are concerned) are mentioned in a bonafide prophecy. But I don’t believe you menitoned Israel. Anyway, I’m reluctant to believe actions by Mexico, China, Russia & Canada are mentioned.
In addition, the prophecy from Mosiah Hancock may not be valid since there was only one source (albeit a dependable one) which recorded it. In the mouth of two or three witnesses . . . So unless you claim Inspiration as your second witness . . . So far I have not felt it regarding this prophecy. But I haven’t felt the opposite either. So, I’m shelving that one for now.
I could go on. But you get the idea. This is why I was wanting sources for all those items you mentioned. Thanks.
I did not know Madsen had a book version. Thanks. Yes it was my understanding “only LDS women” but I do take many liberties in trying to understand where we are in all the prophecies both in the LDS church and out. I look at this statement, if true, Joseph was addressing a Mormon so he would just state, in passing, women of the LDS church. I did not take it Joseph was trying to exclude any other righteous people.
I will try to pull out more details from those in “The Last Days” but I have long ago got past the need for small corrections as to who said what and when. I understand scholastically you and others it is a necessity to be as accurate as possible, but I am just trying to find out where I am at in reference to the latter-day warnings and trying to prepare for what is comes my way. Because few if any dates were given in all the prophecies stated to the LDS members, I personally think that the great event that we are all waiting for will come when all the evils warned about are found everywhere. One example.
ABORTION WOULD BE RAMPANT AS WELL AS EVERY PERVERSION EXCEPTED OR LEGAL.
“The internal fires of revolution are already smoldering in this nation, and they need but a spark to set them in a flame. Already are agencies at work in the land calculated to subvert and overthrow every principle of rule and government; already is corruption of every kind prevailing in high places and permeating all society; already are we, as a nation, departing from our God and corrupting ourselves with malfeasance, dishonor and a lack of public integrity and good faith; already are licentiousness and debauchery corrupting, undermining and destroying society; already are we interfering with the laws of nature and stopping the functions of life, and have become the slayers of our own offspring, and employ human butchers in the shape of physicians to assist in this diabolical and murderous work. The sins of this nation, the licentiousness, the debauchery, the murders are entering into the ears of the Lord of Sabaoth,…”
. (John Taylor, JD 23:62-63, 1882)
I guess without President Taylor every using the words “legalized abortion” to me I get this loud and clear from his statement. I am not sure those of that time could even comprehend what we are living through and how the governments of almost every country encourage this. If President Taylor is saying in 1882 is the starting point now our government is sending our money to assist in this “diabolical and murderous work.”
I know this is old, but maybe Dan can find a conditional in this: “I have seen the end of this nation and it is terrible. I will tell you in the name of the LORD that a secret band will sap the life of this nation.” Moses Thatcher, Journal of Discourses 20:318
Here is a quote from the Prophet Harold B. Lee…
“Men may fail in this country, earthquakes may come, seas may heave themselves beyond their bounds, there may be great drought, disaster, and hardship, but this nation, founded on principles laid down by men whom God raised up will never fail.
This is the cradle of humanity, where life on this earth began in the Garden of Eden. This is the place of the New Jerusalem. This is the place that the Lord has said is favored above all other nations in all the world. THis is the place where the Savior will come to His temple.
Yes, I repeat, men may fail, but this nation won’t fail.
I have faith in America; you and I must have faith in America, if we understand the teachings of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
We are living in a day when we must pay heed to these challenges. I plead with you not to preach pessimism. Preach that this is the greatest country in all the world. This is the favored land. This is the land of our forefathers. It is the nation that will stand despite whatever trials or crisesi it may yet have to pass through.”
Animals don’t store food out of panic, but because they know what’s coming. Eza Taft Benson warned, “Too often we bask in our comfortable complacency and rationalize that the ravages of war, economic disaster, famine, and earthquake cannot happen here. Those who believe this are either not acquainted with the revelations of the Lord, or they do not believe them. Those who smugly think these calamities will not happen, that they somehow will be set aside because of the righteousness of the Saints, are deceived and will rue the day they harbored such a delusion.” Conference Report Oct 1980. His whole talk was Prepare for Days of Tribulation wherein he quotes many previous leaders. Explain them away at your own peril.
As I read many of the comments on this page I am truly saddened. I have read “Prophecy: Key to the Future” and have studied it’s pages carefully. I understand that many things you have to take with a grain of salt, especially Orson Pratt. HOWEVER, if you know ANYTHING about what is going on in our nation, and the world abroad, it is very obvious what is coming.
If you want to know what will befall our nation, you must first look to the Book of Mormon. 3rd Nephi is the key to understanding signs and what to expect. Many will say, “The scriptures teach that no man will know the hour or the day of his coming.” True. But we are given signs so we may know the season. Many generations did live their lives as if the Second Coming was to be in their lifetime. That is what we are all called to do! To say it’s far away so don’t get too exicited is likened to eat, drink, and be merry, don’t worry about it.
Many members of the church have a very skewed idea of what will precede the Second Coming. Many mistakenly believe that all of a sudden, a lot of natural disasters will suddenly strike every where, and then the Lord will appear. They obviously haven’t study what apostles and prophets have said on the matter. Again, read the book Prophecy, all of the quotes have been out there for over a hundred years and yet most members just ignore them.
A previous quote said that the nation won’t fail. Well, if you understand the prophecies, the people of the church will uphold the principles of the nation and people will gather in the west to uphold and live the constitution. I hate to break it to you, but the government itself will FAIL. Read prophecy, the government will fail, we will be plunged into a civil war, and millions of people will die. People will flee westward, and the good people of this nation will band together in the western mountain region of the nation. If you understand the prophecies, you will see that the government falling apart precedes the Second Coming by what seems years and years. The collapse of the United States is only the beginning. Just like among the Nephites, their government collapsed. The people were split into tribes BEFORE any natural disaster occurred. Again, I’m only reiterating what the prophets said in the prophecy book.
The city of New Jerusalem (jackson) has to be destroyed and wiped clean before the people of the lord can even go there. The temple must be built, massive missionary work (possibly millions) must be sent to South America to gather them in New Jerusalem, a glorious and massive city of Zion must be built (with the Salt Lake Valley as a second headquaters) the ten tribes must meet Ephraim, and a whole host of other things before the Lord even appears to the saints. And even this is not the official Second Coming of the Lord. Then 144,000 missionaries are sent to the world as a final warning. Europe is destroyed and the whole world comes to kill the jews, and Christ appears to and saves them. And even to this point it is not yet the official Second Coming. Can you see how many years the Second Coming will be in the future even after the Government collapses? I’m sorry, but if you say otherwise, you simply don’t understand prophecy, you haven’t searched the scriptures or history of the church properly, and you have no idea the current financial situation of our country and the world. We have very little time to prepare for the collapse. Stop telling yourselves it’s not coming soon. Listen to President Woodruff, do away with frivolous and foolish things and get your food storage ready. A society and financial collapse is eminent! A collapse where millions in the nation will die. Don’t be like the foolish virgins and get your house in order. If you are prepared you shall not fear. First understand what is coming, and then get ready. Life will go on, the kingdom of God will be established, we have a future to look forward to, but you must be ready to survive what is coming. God Bless.
I really like your blog, and particularly appreciate this post. Much food for thought. Thank you.
I appreciate the thinking many of you have had regarding these things soon to come. It’s been almost two years since the last post and many things continue to happen that seem to make them ever more imminent.
A few things to keep in mind. The government is not our nation. It is our covenants made with the Lord and our fulfillment of them.
I agree with Jordan that many things need to happen between the time of the cleansing, Armageddon, the 144,000 missionaries sent throughout the world, the final gathering, return of the 10 tribes, etc…
We need to be a new generation of pioneers because that is likely the kind of skills we will need. Learn all you can, grow gardens and gather food, water and supplies of every kind you will need. Also be prepared to share these things with people who will gather with only the clothes on their backs.
I am not in a very great position myself and am trying to overcome challenges in my own family but I have faith that I can overcome despite many fears.
We have much to be positive about as the future comes, but we all need to be prepared. I hope all of you and anyone else who reads these things will also strengthen their knowledge of the gospel, skills, faith and love for all men and women and people of every creed and background. Many of the perceptions we have of others will have to be shed for true charity and love that Jesus provided the example for.
I agree with Jordan, the start of the calamities is very soon (October 2014 or October 2015), then 7-20 years later will be the second coming.
The main sign I thought to look for was first withdrawal of the missionaries (3 Nephi 16:10, D&C 88), hasting – then withdrawal of missionaries then testimony of destruction’s. Is the main thrust of the hastening done!!!!
It is going to be a financial collapse then withdrawal of the missionaries, it has to some extent already started. Ukraine, some south American countries, Haiti, Sister withdrawn from South Africa and others countries.
In the Family a Proclamation to the World “WE WARN that individuals who violate covenants of chastity, who abuse spouse or offspring, or who fail to fulfill family responsibilities will one day stand accountable before God. Further, we warn that the disintegration of the family will bring upon individuals, communities, and nations the calamities foretold by ancient and modern prophets.”
For example pornography, open chastity, abortion, and same gender marriage being sanctioned/accepted across the world is in itself sufficient course for the prophesied calamities.
I don’t see how NY, Boston etc can be spared when they are the main propagators of the filth.
The early prophets keep mentioning how wicked the people of the US were in the 1800′ it is nothing compared today, with the legalization of recreational cannabis, US federal reserve printing money and interests rates artificially close to zero, but stock markets (Dow Jones) at record high the dye is cast for imminent failure.
BOB is up to something and I must say he is ON POINT. All must heed his warning for these times they are near. Bob, you are an angel and you will be amongst God’s grace during these great times of Peril. Your efforts have not gone unnoticed.
LOVE the quote by Wilford Woodruff you listed above saying, “We have no time to throw away, or spend in the foolish things of the flesh; what time is at our disposal should be used in building up the Zion of God, and in preparing ourselves and our families for the things that await us.”
Yet, we still work 40+ hours a week building up Babylon.
For some ODD reason, we think that’s OK, but we’re waiting for permission/direction from the prophets to go ahead and build Zion. Yet, there are dozens of quotes by Woodruff and other early LDS prophets that say we have *everything* we need to build Zion anytime we want! Imagine if we just wanted to.
Here’s another great Woodruff quote about our responsibility as Saints to build Zion:
http://buildingzion.org/zion-quotes/we-are-obligated-to-build-zion/264-we-are-obligated-to-build-zion-wilford-woodruff-quote-1873/
There is no ‘if’ in this one: “Further, we warn that the disintegration of the family will bring upon individuals, communities, and nations the calamities foretold by ancient and modern prophets.”
This sounds more and more legit. 2018
Connor,
Regarding the first two quotes on this page referenced to:
(Gerald N. Lund, The Coming of the Lord [Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1971], 68.))
(Gerald N. Lund, The Coming of the Lord [Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1971], 47.))
The quotes listed are not on those pages. I own the book.
I just did a cursory search for those quotes in the book and cannot find them at all.
Thank you,